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| 8-5-08: . . . [Y]ou are attempting
to present the law requiring an individual to file the previously mentioned
taxes with the IRS internal codes, themselves!!! It is all U.S.C.!!! I
just snorted . . . (Read more)
4-2-08: . . . Money in the United States is based on
debt . . . its worth is actually a negative . . . (Read
more)
2-8-08: You drank the kool-aid . . . (Read
more)
1-12-08: Dear Sir: Posting quotes from the IRS code is
not proof that your position is Constitutional! Talk about assuming what
needs to be proven! . . . (Read more)
10-20-07 . . . A very old friend of mine (who has no
background in law whatsoever), recently befriended a group of people who
exposed her to America: Freedom to Fascism and dragged her deep into the
tax protester smut . . . (Read more)
9-25-07: . . . I am a pastor and some of the members
of my congregation are unduly influened by these protester's arguments
. . . (Read more)
8-26-07: Greetings, I came upon your site after sitting
through half of Aaron Russo's rather dodgy "America: Freedom to Fascism"
. . . (Read more)
6-14-07: . . . I wanted to pose one simple question to
you, as a matter of principle: do you believe it to be morally just to
imprison someone who fails to pay taxes? . . . (Read
more)
6-2-07: interesting analysis. you had me until you argued
that my labor had no value until i traded it, making the gain in assets
taxable . . . (Read more)
5-03-07: Dr. Siegel, I just copied part of the opinion
from the Brushaber Supreme court case, and it seems to me that it only
confirmed that direct and indirect (excise) taxes must remain as they
were before the 16th amendment! I could find nothing that overturned the
Pollock Case! . . . (Read more)
4-14-07: Mr. Siegel, YOU are a genius. All this time people in the truth
in taxation movement have been asking for someone, anyone, to show them
the law that requires them to file a federal income tax return, and to
pay the federal income tax . . . (Read more)
4-10-07: Great website regarding the income tax. Everything you say on
it is correct. If one makes "income" he certainly must pay an
"income tax" on it. . . . (Read more)
3-8-07: Are you really a law professor or an ex-IRS person. Your fraudulent
website is so full of holes you can drive a semi through it. . . . (Read
more)
2-23-07: When I browsed your page critiquing Aaron Russo's film, America:
From Freedom to Fascism, I was hoping to find some direct answers that
would contradict the revelations brought forth in the film. However, the
nonsense on your webpage seems to only give greater credibility to Russo..
. . (Read more)
2-12-07: Thank you for publishing your page on tax law. Up here in New
Hampshire ("Live Free or Die"), we have lots of people who really
believe all of the myths that you debunk. . . . (Read
more)
2-1-07: Dear Mr. Siegel, If I asked you to tell me how you liked the
movie, The Grinch that Stole Christmas," and you told me it had a
great ending. The Grinch turned nice and everybody was singing. That would
not tell me very much and I would wonder if you really understood the
meaning of the story. . . . (Read more)
1-25-07: Greetings: I was searching the web looking for information about
the claims that some people make that there is no law saying you must
pay federal income tax. I found the stuff on your web page to be very
informative but I need one more piece of information to validate it. .
. . (Read more)
1-24-07: I was reading your Income Tax page and I'm confused about one
issue. On your page you said that the tax law says you're only required
to pay federal income taxes if you're required to file a tax return, right?
. . . (Read more)
1-24-07: In your correspondences about the income tax you stated...."Have
you ever seen the actual laws that prohibit murder, robbery, or arson?"
. . . (Read more)
1-20-07: I was just directed to your income tax law page where you have
presented the obvious case for the legality of the income tax and filing.
. . . (Read more)
11-21-06: Hi, I just read your tax page and I am curious of your opinion.
Have you seen Aaron Russo's film America,
Freedom to Fascism? . . . (Read more)
9-15-06: Good day Prof. Siegel. My name is ____ _____. I am a 2L at St.
Thomas University School of Law in Miami, Fl. and I am taking the time
to write you concerning your website. . . . (Read more)
9-6-06: Greetings, I'm a Clemson University economics student who recently
stumbled into the Internet's vast resource of "income tax hoax/fraud"
web sites while conducting research for a public sector class. . . . (Read
more)
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August 5, 2008:
Jonathan,
I just perused your site. I've seen similar information, in the
past. I've personally contacted my elected representatives, as
well as the IRS, CRS, and GAO and nobody has replied regarding
the presentation of a law which requires an individual to file
a 1040, or Federal Income Tax. As I stated, I only perused your
site, but I noticed that you are attempting to present the law
requiring an individual to file the previously mentioned taxes
with the IRS internal codes, themselves!!! It is all U.S.C.!!!
I just snorted. Sorry. I believe that you are either insincere,
or that you are missing the finer point? We are requesting the
very law which permitted the IRS to create their internal statutes
and codes in the first place. Would you be so kind as to provide
that information to me? Nobody else has been able to so. Some
of us still follow Constitutional Law, Jonathan. I eagerly await
your reply.
Sincerely, ____________
|
Reply:
Mr. ____________,
The Internal Revenue Code, codified as part of
the United States Code, is the law. It was written by Congress,
not by the IRS. It is not "internal" to the IRS. For a
detailed explanation of this point, please see here.
Jon Siegel
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April 2, 2008:
If you are a legal professor of law, would you tell me this?
Money in the United States is based on debt, not lawful money
based on gold and silver as stipulated in art 1 sec 10 of the
USC.Our money is therefore counterfeit by Constitutioal Law, being
based on debt its worth is actually a negative.How do you construe
that as income?It is already spent, because its based on the fact
that someone borrowed it from a bank and the money is printed.Which
actually makes it a representitive of debt, therefore not liable
to any income tax.
Wouldn't that make our congress guilty of being accessory to counterfeiting
and extortion?
|
Reply:
Thanks for your message. Two points:
1. If you read Article 1, section 10 of the Constitution,
you will see that it applies only to the states, not to the federal
government. The states are forbidden from making anything but gold
and silver coin a tender in payment of debt, but the federal government
is not subject to that restriction.
2. If you really believe that the worth of your
money is a negative, the solution is simple: send it to me. I will
be happy to accept all of your money. According to your view of
things (under which money is a negative), you will be better off
if you send your money to me.
If you don't send your money to me (and I am guessing
you won't), that proves that you regard your money as a positive,
not a negative. |
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February 8, 2008:
Subject: You drank the kool-aid
Wow.
I read your site. I'm speechless. If your site is correct why
do over 67 million people in this country not pay income taxes
on earned wages and go on about their lives?
It seems to me that since you are a lawyer, you've done your
best to interpret the laws and display them on your site, in the
most clear and concise manner possible. I learned lots from reading
your site, but the most important thing I learned is that you
are defending your profession. I think you feel you have to do
this to prove to yourself that the years you spent training were
not wasted - to prove to yourself that your profession is not
a sham.
I personally know 3 people who have never filed tax returns and
never will. I of course do, because I have kids and don't want
the IRS' militarized units coming down on me like they can. They
have completed their goal of fearing me into paying, and I will
always pay until the "laws" say otherwise. These other
folks live their lives content and happy that they are not part
of this abomination created by the greedy bankers.
You are so sure of yourself and that is why I don't believe your
writings. You openly mock anyone who does not side with your logic
and interpretation. It is apparent that you think our government
is all fair and square, but let me inform you that you got another
thing coming. I was in the military and have seen it all. I know
what our government is capable of. Being an ex-submariner I've
seen what goes on 100 meters below the surface of the ocean with
cable tapping and spying. The fact is the government has lost
all credibility (especially as of late) and now that I've read
both sides of the story, I'm not drinking the kool-aid.
Best of luck to you, ____.
|
Reply:
____, thanks for your message.
First of all, I have the highest respect for your
military service. Thank you for serving our country.
I don't know where you got the figure of 67 million
people not paying taxes, but please remember that many people are
not legally required to file a return or pay taxes. The most common
reason would be that a person does not have enough income to be
required to file. For example, most children up to the age of about
16 would not have enough income to be required to file a return.
So that by itself accounts for tens of millions of Americans not
filing returns.
Please let me assure you that I have not posted
the information on my website in order to defend the legal profession.
I have posted this information because I want people to be able
to see the laws that require most Americans to file income tax returns
and pay taxes. There is a lot of false information out there on
this subject. Many people are claiming that there is no law requiring
Americans to pay taxes and they constantly ask "Where is the
law? Show me the law!" So I am showing the law.
I am not claiming that everything the government
does is fair and square. Far from it. I agree that the government
does some bad things. But lying about the law that requires people
to pay income taxes is not one of them. I know this because I have
personally looked up the law.
I don't know if you had a chance to review this
page on my website, but please take a look at it.
This page explains why you can trust this information
and why I feel confident about it.
Jon Siegel |
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January 12, 2008:
Dear Sir:
Posting quotes from the IRS code is not proof that your position
is Constitutional! Talk about assuming what needs to be proven!
The fact that you cite this agencies code shows you have no Constitutional
support whatsoever. The Tax Protesters are not refuted by citing
an invalid non-authority on the matter. It would be like quoting
from another nation's law-code to prove that whatever you are
quoting is valid HERE. Will you next tell us the Federal Reserve
is Constitutional and that that Private Bankers are allowed to
print money out of thing air and then lend it to our Government
for Interest, forever enslaving the American people to these Money
barons???
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| Reply:
Thanks for your message. The Internal Revenue
Code is proper authority because it is U.S. law, having been passed
by both houses of Congress and signed by the President. Of course
such law, to be valid, must also be constitutional. I address a
couple of constitutional arguments about the income tax here:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/16th.htm
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/16thb.htm
You appear to believe that the income tax laws
are unconstitutional, but you do not say why. Therefore, I can do
no more than refer you to the above pages. You might also check
this web page by Dan Evans, who addresses additional constitutional
arguments:
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
Jon Siegel
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October 20, 2007:
Dear Professor Siegel,
I just wanted to thank you profusely for taking the time to put
up your website debunking tax protester myths. A very old friend
of mine (who has no background in law whatsoever), recently befriended
a group of people who exposed her to America: Freedom to Fascism
and dragged her deep into the tax protester smut. I was concerned
and wanted to make it clear to her that the arguments were absurd,
but as a law student I didn't have the time (and probably didn't
have the knowledge) to cohesively show her everything that was
wrong with it. I tried showing her the IRS FAQ, but she disregarded
it as "more lies." Luckily I stumbled upon your page,
which made my job very easy! I'm happy to say she's now off that
track and wholly aware of her legal obligation to pay taxes. So,
in short, I just wanted to thank you for putting up information
that made it easy for me to get her out before she got in too
deep and did something stupid like refuse to file. It's nice to
see someone put up a page like yours to counter all the other
ridiculous pages out there. I can't believe how convincingly these
protesters take in perfectly intelligent people. Now I just have
to find a way to convice her that a return to the gold standard
will not solve all of America's monetary problems.
Thank you again, _____________.
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. It sounds like your friend
is right in the "target market" for my website. I'm glad
it helped keep her away from trouble.
Jon Siegel |
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September 25, 2007:
Dear Dr. Siegel,
Thank you for the helpful answers you provide on line to the
arguments made by tax protesters. I am a pastor and some of the
members of my congregation are unduly influened by these protester's
arguments. You web site is a very helpful resource.
Sincerely, _________
|
| Reply:
Thanks very much for your message. If my website
can help members of your congregation avoid getting into trouble
with tax protestor arguments, then it will have served its purpose.
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August 26, 2007:
Greetings,
I came upon your site after sitting through half of Aaron Russo's
rather dodgy "America: Freedom to Fascism" and, not
being one to believe something simply because one person says
that it is the case (I AM a grad student in philosophy, after
all), I decided to do some of my own research.
I just wanted to say that, for better or worse, your page has
given me more than sufficient reason to trust that there is a
law requiring all non-exempt American citizens to pay income taxes.
I feel I should let it be known for posterity's sake that I am
no fan of this law (or any form of government in general), but
your citations made me think twice before becoming a tax evader
myself, if only because I do not want to go to jail. I say with
no small amount of shame that I am that coward who chooses to
hand the fruits of his labor over to the thief in exchange for
life.
Perhaps one day I will become courageous enough to cease funding
a nation I've grown to despise. But as for now, I will pay for
the ability to live comfortably because you have eradicated any
doubts I had as to what can---under existing and enforceable laws---happen
to me were I to attempt to evade the IRS.
Thank you, ______.
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. I am glad the web pages
were useful to you.
Given your views, perhaps you should join those
who are agitating for repeal of the income tax? It's a big task,
to be sure, but there's already a movement for it. Perhaps you know
that Ron Paul, who is running for President, supports repeal.
Jon Siegel
|
Thanks for your reply, sir. It's very honorable and kind of you
to go out of your way to get back to those who write to you (especially
the disrespectful playground-bully types) and offer helpful suggestions;
this is the mark of a true teacher.
Unfortunately, given that I am what many would call an "anarchist,"
I refuse to vote or partake in the democratic process out of principle.
A good argument can be made that I'm simply complacent or, at
the very least, unproductive in regards to our republican style
of government, but to use an all-too-cliche and oft-exaggerated
analogy, I wouldn't have fought the National Socialist system
by participating in it---nor would I have achieved anything by
doing so.
Thanks once again for all your help, and I hope you have a great
school year!
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June 14, 2007:
Thank you for contributing to the other side of this debate.
I look forward to studying both sides as this issue has just come
to my attention recently, first in the form of Mr. Russo's film
and secondly in the form of your website.
I wanted to pose one simple question to you, as a matter of principle:
do you believe it to be morally just to imprison someone who fails
to pay taxes? If indeed it turns out that you are correct on the
matter of the personal income tax, would it not be more just to
pursue those who don't pay as civil matters?
Thanks for your time, ______.
|
| Reply:
_____, Thanks for your message. Yes, I do think
jail is an appropriate penalty for failure to pay taxes in some
cases. Here are some reasons:
1. The vast majority of tax cases are
pursued as civil or administrative matters. There are literally
millions of civil tax penalties every year, and hundreds of thousands
of tax liens and levies, but only two or three thousand criminal
tax prosecutions. You can see the statistics here.
This is because, as a matter of policy, the government
reserves criminal prosecution for serious cases. I'm not claiming
that the IRS implements this policy perfectly -- I'm sure it makes
inappropriate decisions sometimes -- but that is the general rule.
2. Criminal prosecution requires the government
to show that the defendant knew he or she was required
to pay taxes and wilfully failed to do so. So we're not talking
about people who just made an honest mistake on their tax return.
Again, this means that criminal tax prosecutions are for serious
cases.
3. Millions of taxpayers (including myself) honestly
pay the taxes they owe every year. If people deliberately fail to
pay their taxes, it hurts honest taxpayers. That is wrong.
4. There has to be some serious deterrent to failing
to pay income tax. The IRS has to enforce the tax laws with regard
to hundreds of millions of people. The odds that the IRS will catch
those who cheat are often low in an individual case, particularly
with regard to income that is not independently reported (such as
the income of the self-employed). If people were only subject to
paying the taxes owed plus interest and penalties, I don't think
that would be a sufficient deterrent and there would be a lot more
noncompliance than there is. The possibility of a jail sentence
is needed to give people a real incentive to pay their taxes.
So yes, I think jail is appropriate in some cases.
Jon Siegel |
Thanks for the reply, you've
given me much to consider.
I just wonder about the deterrence issue. Again, if indeed the
federal income tax does apply to the wages most of us earn, I
definitely support punitive punishment over and above the tax
owed and any interest payment for those who fail to comply.
However, if a person honestly believes the tax does not apply
to him (i.e. Ed Brown, Joe Bannister, Sherry Brown, Irwin Schiff,
etc.), and a jury of his peers determines that the tax does in
fact apply to that individual, I really have a moral problem with
putting someone in jail for an offense that has caused no other
person any physical harm, especially when it was not a deliberate
attempt to evade law in willful violation.
Oh, and one more thing. Do you believe that there is such a thing
as jury nullification which includes the power of a jury to judge
both the facts of a case and the law itself that is in question?
Thanks again, _____.
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Reply:
Remember, it is up to the government to prove to
the jury that the defendant did believe that he had an
obligation to pay income tax. If the defendant truly doesn't believe
he has to pay, failure to pay is not a crime. The defendant still
owes the money (including interest and penalties), but is not subject
to criminal punishment.
So how can people such as Ed Brown and Irwin Schiff
be convicted, when they believe there is no income tax law? The
answer is that the government proved, to the jury's satisfaction,
beyond a reasonable doubt, that Brown and Schiff know that there
is a law requiring them to pay taxes. The jury must have
concluded that Brown and Schiff and similar people are lying when
they say they believe they don't have to pay taxes.
I have no idea what really goes on inside the heads
of Brown, Schiff, and like-minded others. I wasn't at their trials
and I don't know what evidence the government presented. But, under
the law, that evidence must have been sufficient to convince the
jury that the defendants in fact knew they had to pay income taxes,
and that their claims that they believe that they don't have to
are lies.
>> Oh, and one more thing. Do you believe that there
>> is such a thing as jury nullification which includes
>> the power of a jury to judge both the facts of a
>> case and the law itself that is in question?
>
In a criminal case, there is no doubt that the
jury has the power to engage in nullification by returning a not
guilty verdict. Whether juries should do so is a more complex
question.
Jon Siegel
|
For a jury to determine what
a defendant *believed* to be true regarding a particular subject,
members would have to at least be aware of the information upon
which that person reached his alleged conclusion, and have access
to said documents, codes, statutes, etc. Surely this is covered
under almost every clause in the 5th and 6th amendments, particularly
the right to call witnesses on your own behalf. In these cases,
the "witnesses" are the documents and the law itself.
This is indeed the crux of the matter, is it not?
Are you aware of a case or cases where the jury
has been presented the evidence that people claim to have about
the ratification of the 16th amendment, the so-called 861 evidence,
and all other theories a man wishes to present? (Surely only a tyrant
would determine a given defense "frivolous" if it had
never yet been heard by a jury.)
This is what I am most interested in finding out.
Has the law actually been put on trial, or is it really like Mr.
Russo, Mr. Brown, Mr. Shiff et al allege, where the judges systematically
deny these defendants their rights to put the law on trial for judgment
by a jury of their peers?
Thanks again, you've been very helpful. |
Reply:
Your point is well taken, and I don't really know
the full answer. But I can say this:
1. It is not up to the jury to decide what the
law is. The judge decides whether the law requires people
to pay taxes, and of course all the judges decide that it does,
because that is the correct answer. So in this sense "the law"
is never put on trial.
2. The jury does decide whether the defendant in
a criminal tax case believed that he was obliged to pay
taxes. As you say, in order for the jury to make this decision,
it would need to have an understanding of the defendant's thinking
and so would need some opportunity to hear the defendant's explanation
of why he claims he believed there was no such obligation.
3. Tax protestor defendants frequently complain
that the judge in their trial excluded all the evidence that would
allow them to prove what they believed. I don't really know what
happens. I heard from someone who claimed to be personally present
at the trial of Larken Rose that Rose was "allowed to go through
the entire 861 presentation, with all of the statutes and regulations
he wanted." On the other hand, I have heard directly from Rose
that Rose feels that the judge excluded all his evidence. So you
see there are conflicting stories.
My best guess, based on my assessment of the reliability
of the people involved, is that Rose was allowed to make a reasonably
full presentation of his 861 argument, but he wasn't allowed to
show his video version and wasn't allowed to put in every chart,
diagram, and exhibit he wanted, and he has magnified this in his
own mind into "the judge excluded everything."
But as I say, I don't really know.
Jon Siegel |
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June 2, 2007:
interesting analysis. you had me until you argued that my labor
had no value until i traded it, making the gain in assets taxable.
and you teach? i know i won't be hiring any accountants (or logicians)
from George Washington anytime soon.
|
| Reply:
Mr. _____,
Thanks for your message. I never said your labor
had no value. What I said is that, for tax purposes, the value is
irrelevant. Please review this page:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/wages.htm
As the page explains, when you sell something,
you normally have taxable income if the sale price exceeds your
"basis" in the thing sold. But your basis has nothing
to do with the value of the thing sold. It has to do with
the cost to you of the thing sold.
If we were to apply this concept to the sale of
labor (which the tax code isn't really set up to do), we would conclude
that you should be able to deduct, from your wages or salary, the
cost to you of your labor. But what is that? Did you ever pay anyone
anything to own your labor? I certainly didn't and I expect that
you didn't either. Therefore, your basis in your labor is zero.
That doesn't mean your labor has no value. It has
value, but value is not the relevant figure.
Jon Siegel |
it still sounds like your
argument re the tax code is that if it doesn't cost you anything,
it isn't worth anything.
sorry, i must be a strict constructionist or a
semanticist - because i'm not still not buying it. and of course
the anti-elitist in me resents being devalued.
fyi |
Reply:
Mr. ______,
You're really not being devalued. Value is just
not the relevant figure. Let me put it this way:
If you bought a diamond for $10,000 and sold it
some years later for $15,000, your income would be $5,000. That's
the $15,000 sale price minus your basis (cost) of $10,000.
But what if you found a diamond in the street and
sold it for $15,000? How much income would you have? You didn't
pay anything for the diamond. It had no cost to you. So your basis
is zero. Therefore, the whole $15,000 sale price would be income,
because you have no basis to deduct from it.
That doesn't mean the diamond is valueless! Obviously
it is very valuable. But your basis is determined by cost, not value.
The value of the thing sold is irrelevant.
The sale of labor is the same. You didn't pay anything
to own your labor. Therefore your basis in it is zero. That doesn't
mean it has no value. Like the diamond found in the street, it is
valuable. But basis is determined by cost, not value.
It really has to be this way. If you deducted the
value of the thing sold, you would never have any income from anything!
In any normal, free market transaction, on the day you sell something,
its value is equal to the sale price. So if you could deduct the
value, your income would be zero. That can't be how it works. You
deduct the cost, not the value.
Jon Siegel |
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May 3, 2007:
Dr. Siegel,
I just copied part of the opinion from the Brushaber Supreme court
case, and it seems to me that it only confirmed that direct and
indirect (excise) taxes must remain as they were before the 16th
amendment! I could find nothing that overturned the Pollock Case!
“Second, that the contention that the Amendment treats a
tax on income as a direct tax although it is relieved from apportionment
and is necessarily therefore not subject to the rule of uniformity
as such rule only applies to taxes which are not direct, thus
destroying the two great classifications which have been recognized
and enforced from the beginning, is also wholly without foundation
since the command of the Amendment that all income taxes shall
not be subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources
from which the taxed income may be derived [240 U.S. 1, 19forbids
the application to such taxes of the rule applied in the Pollock
Case by which alone such taxes were removed from the great class
of excises, duties, and imposts subject to the rule of uniformity,
and were placed under the other or direct class. This must be
unless it can be said that although the Constitution, as a result
of the Amendment, in express terms excludes the criterion of source
of income, that criterion yet remains for the purpose of destroying
the classifications of the Constitution by taking an excise out
of the class to which it belongs and transferring it to a class
in which it cannot be placed consistently with the requirements
of the Constitution. Indeed, from]another point of view, the Amendment
demonstrates that no such purpose was intended, and on the contrary
shows that it was drawn with the object of maintaining the limitations
of the Constitution and harmonizing their operation. We say this
because it is to be observed that although from the date of the
Hylton Case, because of statements made in the opinions in that
case, it had come to be accepted that direct taxes in the constitutional
sense were confined to taxes levied directly on real estate because
of its ownership, the Amendment contains nothing repudiation or
challenging the ruling in the Pollock Case that the word 'direct'
had a broader significance, since it embraced also taxes levied
directly on personal property because of its ownership, and therefore
the Amendment at least impliedly makes such wider significance
a part of the Constitution,-a condition which clearly demonstrates
that the purpose was not to change the existing interpretation
except to the extent necessary to accomplish the result intended;
that is, the prevention of the resort to the sources from which
a taxed income was derived in order to cause a direct tax on the
income to be a direct tax on the source itself, and thereby to
take an income tax out of the class of excises, duties, and imposts,
and place it in the class of direct taxes. [240 U.S. 1, 20] We
come, then, to ascertain the merits of the many contentions made
in the light of the Constitution as it now stands; that is to
say, including within its terms the provisions of the 16th Amendment
as correctly interpreted. We first dispose of two propositions
assailing the validity of the statute on the one hand because
of its repugnancy to the Constitution in other respects, and especially
because its enactment was not authorized by the 16th Amendment.”
If, as you say that Pollock was overturned please send me the
Supreme Court Case that indicates your position so I can better
understand the law. It is very difficult for me to understand
your position when I can find nothing to support it.
I barely got through high school so I have a great deal of respect
for people such as yourself that have achieved the degree of education
you have. I hope my correspondence doesn’t sound disrespectful;
it would seem when I study other court cases that they conflict
with what you believe.
As I read history I think the founding fathers be discussed with
how we have let this Republic become a Democracy because we as
a people are lazy and don’t make our employees obey the
constitution as written.
Thank you, _____.
|
| Reply:
Mr. _____, the very case you cite, Brushaber, says:
"the [Sixteenth] Amendment was drawn for the purpose of doing
away for the future with the principle upon which the Pollock Case
was decided"
thus showing that Pollock is no longer good law. (p. 18)
The case also says, on the same page:
"the whole purpose of the Amendment was to relieve all income
taxes when imposed from apportionment from a consideration of the
source whence the income was derived. . . . in express terms the
Amendment provides that income taxes, from whatever source the income
may be derived, shall not be subject to the regulation of apportionment."
So Congress may impose an income tax and the income tax is not
subject to the requirement of apportionment.
|
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April 14, 2007:
Mr. Siegel,
YOU are a genius. All this time people in the truth in taxation
movement have been asking for someone, anyone, to show them the
law that requires them to file a federal income tax return, and
to pay the federal income tax. Up to this point, all that has
been achieved is for those that propose there is such a law, is
countless name calling, declaring people’s arguments that
there is no law to be frivolous and that these people are obviously
anti-government. But now you come along and make it look so easy!
Are you going to pay taxes on the money and property you will
collect as a result of finally showing all of these doubters that
there really is a law? Just one other question, can you say legalese?
Thank you for finally putting this whole mess to rest.
________, Iowa City, IA.
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. I only wish I was collecting
money from showing people the law! I'd be happy to pay tax on it.
Maybe I could charge the IRS a cut of the tax it gets from people
who pay up after reading my website . . . hmmm, unfortunately, not
very likely.
Anyway, thanks again. |
In actuality, you CAN cash
in whether there is a law or not, simply by becoming an IRS informant.
Just turn in your fellow Americans that know there is no law and
follow the Constitution by refusing to be extorted by the government.
Pretty good deal huh? God bless Amerika. But because you can show
there IS a law, you can cash in by collecting all of the offers
being made to anyone that can show just that. Beginning with Ed
and Elaine Brown, whose story you linked to (Fox news no less, the
most trustworthy source of no spin news in Amerika) on your website.
They're offering a million dollars in property for anyone that can
show them the law. There are others that have offered large sums
of cash, that have been unclaimed to date, for anyone that can show
the law. Unfortunately all of this still goes unclaimed because
the only misguided reference anyone can site is the same that you
do. I guess there are just too many people out there that just have
all the money they need and therefore can't be bothered with taking
a couple of minutes and just showing the "real" law.
Just remember, the federal income tax is legal
and backed by the Constitution. It's how it's being, and has been
misapplied, by the IRS. I'm only sorry that you wasted a good education
to become part of the matrix. I suppose you also believe that the
Federal Reserve System is Constitutional also? |
I'm currently listening your conversation with
Larken Rose on Soapbox Radio. I can tell that you've been doing
all of your research on the IRS website. You even copy and paste
their section on Tax Protestor Myths into your website. This shows
how little research you've done on your own account. Not sure if
you're aware of the current situation with Tom Cryer, so I thought
I'd supply this link for your educational enrichment.
http://www.gcstation.net/liefreezone/#stake
I'm sure that even someone taking your position
will agree that this is not just some tax evading kook. I would
submit that he is far more qualified to address this issue than
even you.
You're also quite naïve to believe that just
because people like Larken have been put into prison, amounst others,
that that in itself proves that there is a law. All this proves
is that the notion that American's rights are being taken from them,
and corruption in the government is destroying the Constitution,
is a reality. If you truly believe that our government, especially
our current administration, has never lied to the American people,
you are in denial.
One other comment. I couldn't help notice in your
discussion with Larken, you sounded quite condescending. As a person
dedicated to education, I ask that you think outside of the conventional
wisdom and use your OWN mind instead of relying on IRS propaganda,
as well as what you've been taught in public schools since you started
going to school. Just don't believe that slavery is a thing of the
past, as it's still alive and well today.
|
Reply:
Rats, you fooled me. When I saw your first message I had some
suspicion as to its genuineness, particularly based on the sentence,
"Just one other question, can you say legalese?" But
I decided to do you the courtesy of assuming that you were being
sincere in the rest of your message, such as when you said, "Thank
you for finally putting this whole mess to rest." Now I see
that the whole thing was just an exercise in sarcasm.
Too bad. As to your other messages:
* There are many people who claim to be offering
money for proving that the law requires people to pay income tax.
But on close examination, these offers usually turn out to be bogus.
Often they say that to win, you have to disprove something that
is obviously true, such as that "under the Constitution, Congress
passes the laws." With particular regard to Mr.
Brown's offer, there are two problems -- first, you have to
be
the first to show him the law, and I presume someone else has
already done so, and second, he says that the law can't be Title
26. Well, that is the law, so it is impossible to collect on his
offer.
* I have not cut and pasted from the IRS website.
Everything on my website is based on my original research. I have
looked directly at the tax law itself and at the accompanying regulations.
Thanks again for your messages. I'm sorry that
you couldn't just have been an honest person from the beginning
and said what you actually believed, instead of starting off with
sarcastic statements that are the opposite of what you believe.
|
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April 10, 2007:
Great website regarding the income tax.
Everything you say on it is correct. If one makes "income"
he certainly must pay an "income tax" on it.
And there certainly ARE laws which make one liable. Take this
from someone who has been in the tax honesty movement for 20 years.
I however do not make much "income". Last year it was
only $60.00 in fact.
I am a highly paid professional and I do have quite a bit "withheld"
as the companies I work for have common misunderstandings in this
regard. However that is ok, I am non privileged private sector
worker, and I have recieved back everything I have paid in to
the IRS and state taxing agencies including Medicare, FICA and
other Federal taxes, for the past few years now as I now KNOW
the law too. Luckily, the IRS also knows the law, and has been
quietly refunding everything paid in by many private sector workers
for years, but only if you know the law. You can read about it
here...
www.losthorizons.com
All the best,
_______
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. If, as you say, everything
I say on my website is correct, then you do have income:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/wages.htm
The statement on your website that income "is the exercise
of federal privilege, which is measured, for purposes of determining
the tax, by the receipts brought in by that exercise" is contrary
to section 61.
Jon Siegel |
| |
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|
March 8, 2007:
Are you really a law professor or an ex-IRS person. Your fraudulent
website is so full of holes you can drive a semi through it. no
wonder I can beat your lawschool buddies in court. they were probably
trained by you. I would stick to ambulance chasing. That is why
you are called an attorney instead of a lawyer and I will bet
you do not even know what I am talking about.
Let me just say this without wasting more of my valuble time.
26 U.S.C IS NOT LAW but simply code which congress can pass into
law given the passing of statutes. Secondarily, most of 26 U.S.C.
is found in 27 CFR section 70 et. seq. I f you do not know what
I am saying CFR statnds for Code of Federal Regulations and the
27 part, that is for Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms as well as
Federal Employees and non-resident aliens. You should read the
code and do some research before making the same assertions the
IRS uses in their propaganda before some Lawschool 101 freshman
knows more than you do. Another thing you may want to go and look
up in the Federal Register and see if Congress has enacted the
IRS as a government agency, and also research the IRM Internal
Revenue Manual and look under OMB numbers, thets Office of Management
and Budget and see what is says about a 1040, which TD 2313 in
the Brushaber Supreme Court case stated it was for non-resident
aliens. Get into politics or be a DOJ patsy, because you do not
know what you are talking about. Put this on your website.
|
Reply:
Thanks for your message. I really am a law professor and I never
worked for the I.R.S., although I did work at the U.S. Department
of Justice before I went into teaching.
Title 26 of the U.S. Code is law. The U.S. Code is a compilation
of statutes passed by the United States Congress. Every section
in Title 26 was passed by Congress as law. |
Guess what you are not up
to date the 1986 code was not passed into law and I know that what
I told you about the CFR's are true as I have the regulations from
the law. I noticed that you do what you do because of your background
which explains why it is a copy of the IRS flyer that they send
out to con people into paying that which Article I section 8 says
has to be done first in order to tax our earnings. If they want
us to follow the law they first must first follow it. That is why
people keep asking for the law, there isn't one and again research
the Supreme Court caselaw that is what you should be telling your
students, not perforce giving them your biased opinion like a lot
of the judges do today. Look it up we have. The Constitution is
the law for us not what the government thinks. |
Reply:
The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 became law on
October 22, 1986, by Congress's passage of Public Law 99-514. Some
more information is available here.
The code has been amended many times since then, each time by law
passed by Congress.
So the code really is law. |
Read what Jeff said. it is
not law without the statutes at large. You are arguing for something
that does not exist and is verified by several Supreme Court cases
from 1895 to the present. You cannot tax private citizens on their
earnings period. I have studying this long and hard for 13 years
and have every pertinent case on this. That is why the IRS just
lost another case. They are being caught up with with their lies
and fraud. If you pay me enough I will teach your class on the real
tax law. |
Reply:
But it's in the Statutes at Large. Volume
100, starting at page 2085. I'm looking at it right now. Public
Law 99-514, "An Act To reform the internal revenue laws of
the United States." Check it out for yourself.
Look, I'm sorry, but Congress really did pass this
and it really is law. Why don't you try a different argument? There's
no point arguing that Congress didn't pass something when it obviously
did, as anyone can check by looking it up in the books.
|
This is my last comment on
this. I am too busy suing the IRS. 80,000,000 non payers cannot
be wrong and Federal Workers who owe $2,799,950,195 are wrong. Go
to: www.wtop.com/?nid-428&sid=1034585. Stop defending these
crooks You do not even know where this stolen money goes.
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February 23, 2007:
When I browsed your page critiquing Aaron Russo's film, America:
From Freedom to Fascism, I was hoping to find some direct answers
that would contradict the revelations brought forth in the film.
However, the nonsense on your webpage seems to only give greater
credibility to Russo. On the page, "Comments on Aaron Russo's
America: Freedom to Fascism", you descredit your own argument
by using, again, the tax code to prove that one is required to
pay income tax. However, being a professor of law at a major university,
you yourself would know that no such code can legally be enforced
without a statute authorizing that code. It seems to be the case
that no such statute exists! As well, you well know that any decision
handed down by the Supreme Court is infallible and that any court
lower does not have the authority to question or revise its verdict;
this means with regards to the length of its enforcibility, forever,
as there is not a statute of limitations on a Supreme Court verdict.
You use the argument that interviewing someone convicted of tax
fraud somehow brings incredibility to the documentary; again,
you're starting with fallacious presuppositons, instead of allowing
the evidence being presented by the person(s) to speak for itself.
It sounds as if the same whitewashed arguments I hear most "scientists"
propogating are being presented here. In most instances, I find,
evidence is used to validate a presupposition; what is not usually
questioned is whether the presupposition is inherently false.
So, if you want to prove to me (or any other intelligent reader)
the validity of your argument, provide some real evidence to back
up your assertation. Deception is any easy beast to fall prey
to... _________, TN
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. The tax code is
a statute, or to be more precise, a set of statutes. The statutes
were passed by the United States Congress. Congress chose the name
"Internal Revenue Code of 1986" as the name for the set
of statutes. So there is no distinction between the code and statutes.
Please see this
page for the particular statutes that require payment of income
taxes.
I hope that helps. I can't comment on your argument
regarding Supreme Court decisions because you don't specify which
decision you have in mind. |
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February 12, 2007:
Thank you for publishing your page on tax law. Up here in New
Hampshire ("Live Free or Die"), we have lots of people
who really believe all of the myths that you debunk. You may have
heard of the standoff with Ed Brown in Plainfield. Some of my
friends almost had me believing them and Ed when they say there
is no law requiring the payment of income tax. You have done a
service by explaining this in simple terms. Thank you! _________,
Franconia, NH
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your kind message. If you had friends
trying to convince you that there is no law requiring payment of
income taxes, you are right in the "target market" for
my web page. I'm glad you found it to be helpful.
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February 1, 2007:
Dear Mr. Siegel,
If I asked you to tell me how you liked the movie, The Grinch that
Stole Christmas," and you told me it had a great ending. The
Grinch turned nice and everybody was singing. That would not tell
me very much and I would wonder if you really understood the meaning
of the story.
That's about how your criticism of Aaron Russo's Freedom From Fascism
sounded. I was sincerely looking for some good advice about what
was claimed in that film, and to tell you the truth, after reading
your criticism of it, and the page you made in regard to IRS tax
code, I can only surmise that Aaron Russo is right on target. I
noticed that you are a professor of law. I am wondering if you are
differentiating between what is a code and what is a law. I am only
a grandmother with a high school education, so I expect my email
will probably mean even less than 25 minutes of that film, but I
would really like to know if you have had a chance to watch the
entire film yet. After examining the information you have laid out,
I feel like you have really missed some major stuff.
I would appreciate seeing the actual law, not the "policies"
or "codes" of an entity called the IRS. If you have the
number of the law, I would like to see it, but only after you have
viewed that incredibly important film at least twice... one time
through the eyes of a skeptic, and a second time, through the eyes
of an optimist... someone who might be thankful that we might actually
be free of the bondage of the income tax after all. How wonderful
that would be. Would it not? Whose side are you on?
Sincerely, ___________.
|
Reply:
Thanks for your message. I'm sorry I don't have
time to view the whole film right now -- I have a lot of deadlines
in my work. Perhaps I'll have time to get to it in a month or so
and if I do I'll post a fuller review.
But in the meanwhile, you asked for "the number
of the law." I presume you mean the law requiring payment of
income taxes. The relevant laws, complete with numbers, can be found
on my web page here:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm
These really are laws -- they were passed by the
Congress of the United States. They are not creations of the IRS.
They are part of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, because that's
the name chosen by Congress for this set of laws.
Please take a look and see what you think. And
congratulations on your grandchildren -- I'm sure they're wonderful.
|
Dear Mr. Siegel,
Thank you very much for your prompt response. I
certainly understand you must be very busy and appreciate that you
have taken the time to respond to me. I will check back with you
one of these days to see if you had had a chance to post another
message on this after viewing the film. I will double check the
site you referred me to as well. I am not sure if I am understanding
you correctly, but it appears that you are saying that the code
was created in 1986. I'll tell you I had been paying income taxes
many years prior to that.
Well, I don't mean to open a can of worms when
you are busy, so I will say I will get in touch with you one day
in the future, and if you get any time to work on this, it would
be appreciated as I am very interested in making sure I have my
facts straight when I talk to people about such things.
Thank you, ________.
|
Reply:
Thanks for your follow up. The Internal Revenue Code of 1986
replaced the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, which replaced the
Internal Revenue Code of 1939, which replaced earlier tax laws.
These were all statutes passed by the U.S. Congress. So there
have been tax laws in effect for a long time.
And I'll see what I can do about that film. Maybe
check back April 15! That would be an appropriate day.
|
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|
January 25, 2007:
Greetings: I was searching the web looking for information about
the claims that some people make that there is no law saying you
must pay federal income tax. I found the stuff on your web page
to be very informative but I need one more piece of information
to validate it. You have all of those statutes, codes and provisions
laid out so a layman like myself can understand it easily. Now
I just need the names and publishers of the law books to authenticate
it and where I can find the books themselves for my proof positive.
In other words where's the source? It looks authentic but I want
to see it first hand in a book in a law library. I want to go
to the UMKC Law Library and have the librarian there take me to
the books so I can make photo copies of it. I couldn't find reference
to where you got this at. I'm not saying that you are wrong and
I'm not doubting your integrity but I want to see this first hand
so I can tell 2 friends of mine that they are indeed wrong. I'm
just asking you to tell me where I can find the law book with
those laws in it so I can read it for myself out of the real books
rather than relying on a website. You don't list the law books
here on the website where you got this out of. I have yet to have
any lawyer, college professor or government official be able to
tell me where I can find proof of federal income tax laws in a
law library. I do believe that there are federal income tax laws
but why are Federal court judges trying to hide them or won't
tell us where they are? Also in this current case with Ed Brown
up in New Hampshire I find it absolutely appallling the Judge
McCaulliffe won't show MR. Brown where the law is written. Doesn't
Judge McCaulliffe know his Law? Or do we have a complete moron
sitting on the federal bench? Even when I have gone to something
as insignificant as local traffic court they will recite you chapter
and verse and the code/statute numbers of traffic law and other
infractions you are being charged with; so why can't the Feds
do the same thing? Why can't a Federal court judge just simply
have the respect and decency to show us the law instead of treating
people disrespectfully like they do? But you yourself SIR do seem
to know this law that everyone doubts. If you would be kind enough
to tell me the name of the law book that contains it so I can
go to the UMKC Law Library here in Kansas City Missouri then I
can make myself some photocopies and blow these doubters out of
the water. I will be the biggest proponent of your website if
you can give me ROCK SOLID PROOF of what you have put on this
site. thank you for your time. ________-Grain Valley, Missouri
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. I think looking up the
laws yourself is an excellent idea. One problem, though, is that
looking up legal information can require some specialized training.
It's not always so easy to find everything. But the laws themselves
are the easiest part. If you have access to a law library, you should
be able to find the laws themselves without too much trouble.
The laws themselves are part of the UNITED STATES
CODE. It's published by the U.S. Government Printing Office. Just
ask a librarian where the library keeps the United States Code,
or, alternatively, a version called the "United States Code
Annotated," which has the laws plus additional information
such as notes of court decisions (that's published by West Group,
a major legal publisher). Either version is a large, multi-volume
set. The tax laws are in Title 26, which is basically the same as
Volume 26. Within the volume, the laws are arranged by section number,
so you can look up individual sections that are cited on my web
page by number.
If you want to get really ambitious and look up
cases cited on my web page, you can ask where the library keeps
the "Federal Reporter." This is a little harder to use.
Cases are cited by volume number and page. For example, my citation
to "United States v. Benson, 941 F.2d 598 (7th Cir. 1991),"
means you need to find volume 941 and look for page 598 within that
volume. But just to make it more complicated, note that "F.2d"
means the Second Series of the Federal Reporter (there are three
series of the Federal Reporter so far), so you need to find volume
941 in the Second Series.
Good luck. Please let me know whether you are able
to find the tax laws and convince your friends -- I'd be interested
to hear.
And by the way, I agree that government officials
should courteously show the tax laws to anyone who asks to see them.
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| January
24, 2007:
I was reading your Income Tax page and I'm confused
about one issue. On your page you said that the tax law says you're
only required to pay federal income taxes if you're required to
file a tax return, right? Well I heard that you don't have to file
a tax return because it's a violation of the "paperwork reduction
act". So if you're not required to file a tax return as per
the paperwork reduction act, wouldn't that mean you don't have to
pay federal income taxes as well?
|
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. The problem with this
theory is that the tax return requirement does not violate the Paperwork
Reduction Act. I have to admit I've never investigated this argument
in detail, because it seems too silly, but here's my understanding:
the PRA provides that government forms that request information
must bear a "control number" assigned by the Office of
Management and Budget. If there's no OMB number, then you don't
have to fill out the form. But Form 1040 does have an OMB number!
It's right there in the upper-right-hand corner of Form 1040. Same
for Form 1040-EZ and other IRS forms. So there's no violation of
the PRA.
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January 24, 2007:
In your correspondences about the income tax you stated...."Have
you ever seen the actual laws that prohibit murder, robbery, or
arson?"
I can say that YES I have seen these laws and are often cited in
prosecution of these types of criminals.
I can also say that I have researched the tax code and cannot find
the statute that puts the wages of any human being subject to a
tax.
Your arguments are vague and convoluted to the point of not making
any sense. There are several ex-IRS agents who are knowledgable
of the law and they all state that there is no law.
There have been several court cases that have won by defendants
who ask the question...show me the law. According to the US Supreme
court, the 16th ammendment does not give the
government any new taxing authority.
All we as US citizens want is to be shown the law. |
Reply:
Thanks for your message.
>In your correspondences about the income tax you stated...."Have
you
>ever seen the actual laws that prohibit murder, robbery, or
arson?"
>
>I can say that YES I have seen these laws and are often cited
in
>prosecution of these types of criminals.
Really? What state are you from? Perhaps you could quote me the
statutes the prohibit murder, robbery, and arson in your state.
I would be interested to learn whether you have seen the actual
statutes. If so, good for you, but I think you are in a very small
minority.
>I can also say that I have researched the tax code and cannot
find the
>statute that puts the wages of any human being subject to a
tax.
Well, the statutes are right on my web page:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/JustNoLaw.htm
Please take a look.
>Your arguments are vague and convoluted to the point of not
making any
>sense.
>There are several ex-IRS agents who are knowledgable of the
law and they
>all state that there is no law.
>There have been several court cases that have won by defendants
who ask
>the question...show me the law.
>According to the US Supreme court, the 16th ammendment does
not give the
>government any new taxing authority.
The 16th amendment did not give a new taxing authority, but it
allowed the existing authority to be used to tax incomes, without
regard to the previous requirement of apportionment.
>All we as US citizens want is to be shown the law.
Again, it's on my web page. See the link above.
[Note: No further word received yet from this correspondent.] |
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|
January 20, 2007:
I was just directed to your income tax law page where you have
presented the obvious case for the legality of the income tax
and filing. I'm sure it couldn't have escaped your attention
that everyone making the claim that "there is no law"
has certainly been through this same information, and nonetheless
have a quite contrary viewpoint.
Now, my first question is... if this is so "obvious"
to you, then why have you not been awarded the $50,000 prize?
Or did you not realize the offer existed? I would assume that
your presentation of fact should qualify you -- and, naturally,
the probable thousands of individuals who responded to the challenge
with the same material. None of them won, I guess.
My second question is, have you pursued the other
(more rational, I think) arguments against the income tax as per
its supposed un-Constitutionality? I am fully aware that Congress
can essentially pass any law they wish regardless of the law of
the land (apparently, at least), but do these Supreme Court decisions
barring taxation rights of Congress (I'm sure you know of them)
truly exist? And so what?
I'm just looking into this matter for the first
time, and only because I have seen the "evidence" provided
from other sources; this is an attempt on my part to find out
if there is any substance to any of them. Unfortunately, it is
difficult to entertain the notion of a legal income tax when it
has been refuted by former IRS professionals. Also, I am concerned
about the Marcy Brooks account, which -- on her word -- seems
to invoke the compelling idea that presenting Article 26 does
not prove what you think it does. Again, I am quite new to this
subject, and I just find it fascinating... especially for the
lack of reasoned evidence on either side of the argument.
If you have not heard the Marcy Brooks accounting
(a truncated version is presented in America: Freedom to Fascism),
here is the link to a 2-part radio interview:
http://www.petermacshow.com/content/view/165/34/
The only thing that is obvious to be so far is
that there is a whole lot of salesmanship on one side and a near-complete
lack of proof on the other.
With Regards, _____________. |
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. I'm afraid your questions are a little
vague, but here goes:
>Now, my first question is... if this is so "obvious"
to you, then why have
>you not been awarded the $50,000 prize? Or did you not realize
the offer
>existed? I would assume that your presentation of fact should
qualify you
>-- and, naturally, the probable thousands of individuals who
responded to
>the challenge with the same material. None of them won, I
guess.
I don't know what $50,000 prize you refer to.
If you could provide me with a link to it, I'll take a look. But
based on my previous web browsing in this area, I'm guessing the
answer is this: there's a page that claims that there's no law
requiring people to pay income taxes, and it mentions a $50,000
prize, but, if you look closely, you'll see that the prize is
not for showing that there is a law that requires people to pay
income taxes. Instead, the prize is directed to something different,
which would be impossible to do, such as disproving true but irrelevant
statements on the order of "The Constitution limits the powers
of Congress."
>My second question is, have you pursued the
other (more rational, I think)
>arguments against the income tax as per its supposed un-Constitutionality?
>I am fully aware that Congress can essentially pass any law
they wish
>regardless of the law of the land (apparently, at least),
but do these
>Supreme Court decisions barring taxation rights of Congress
(I'm sure you
>know of them) truly exist? And so what?
Again, it is impossible to respond to this without
knowing what arguments or cases you're referring to. I respond
to one constitutional argument on my web page: the argument that
the 16th Amendment was never ratified. You can read my response
on my web page.
>I'm just looking into this matter for the first time, and
only because I
>have seen the "evidence" provided from other sources;
this is an attempt on
>my part to find out if there is any substance to any of them.
>Unfortunately, it is difficult to entertain the notion of
a legal income tax
>when it has been refuted by former IRS professionals.
Any large organization, such as the IRS, that
has tens of thousands of employees, will hire a few foolish individuals
who endorse absurd ideas.
>Also, I am concerned
>about the Marcy Brooks account, which -- on her word -- seems
to invoke the
>compelling idea that presenting Article 26 does not prove
what you think it
>does. Again, I am quite new to this subject, and I just find
it
>fascinating... especially for the lack of reasoned evidence
on either side
>of the argument.
>
>If you have not heard the Marcy Brooks accounting (a truncated
version is
>presented in America: Freedom to Fascism), here is the link
to a 2-part
>radio interview:
>
>http://www.petermacshow.com/content/view/165/34/
I'm sorry, but I don't have time to listen to
Ms. Brooks's account. I tried about 5 minutes of it and she didn't
get to anything of interest.
>The only thing that is obvious to be so far
is that there is a whole lot of
>salesmanship on one side and a near-complete lack of proof
on the other.
I'm not sure which side is which in your last
sentence above, but you might consider these questions: which
side has been upheld in hundreds of court decisions? Which side's
proponents have gone to prison? Take a look at the part of my
web page that responds to the argument "nothing bad ever
happens to tax protestors" for some examples.
What would you accept as proof? If I say that
there is a law requiring the payment of income taxes, and I show
you the law on my web page, and I show that people have gone to
prison for not obeying that law, is that not proof?
Regards,
Jon Siegel |
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| Nov.
21, 2006:
Hi, I just read your tax page and I am curious of your opinion.
Have you seen Aaron Russo's film America,
Freedom to Fascism? If so what are your thoughts? Are you still
holding to what you state on that page?
Sincerely, _____. |
| Reply:
Thanks for your message -- it's always nice to hear from people
who have read my web page.
I haven't had time to view the full Russo film that you called
to my attention -- it's nearly two hours -- but I did watch the
first 25 minutes or so, and here are my thoughts.
This film appears to consist of the usual wholly mistaken arguments.
Most of the arguments I saw are already covered on my web page.
The film opens with a brief reference to the 16th Amendment argument.
This is covered
on my web page.
Then, in the part of the film I watched, Russo interviews ordinary
people on the street and asks them if they have ever seen the actual
law that requires them to pay taxes. They all say no (or don't answer).
Well, of course they haven't seen the income tax law. Most people
are not lawyers. Most people have never seen any actual
law. Most people wouldn't know where to look for any actual law
even if they wanted to. And even most lawyers don't spend their
time looking up the actual statutes that we all obey in our everyday
lives.
Have you ever seen the actual laws that prohibit murder, robbery,
or arson? I bet if you asked 100 random people whether they have
ever seen these laws, at least 98 of them would say no. Does that
mean that these laws don't exist? Does that mean it's a fraud to
tell people that they can't murder each other or burn down buildings?
Of course not. Whether ordinary people have seen the actual statutes
about anything is irrelevant.
Russo interviews some former IRS agents who have joined the tax
protestor movement. Any big government agency with tens of thousands
of employees will at some point employ some foolish people. The
fact that some former IRS agents are tax protestors is not persuasive.
Some of these former agents say that the IRS has "refused"
to say which laws require people to pay taxes. Russo pursues this
point at length, but it's false. The IRS has specified the relevant
laws in its publication "The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments."
This publication can be viewed on the IRS website. Here's the URL:
http://www.irs.gov/taxpros/article/0,,id=159932,00.html#_Toc139431515
If anyone wants more info on this point, it's available on numerous
web pages, including mine.
It may be true that the IRS doesn't do as good a job as it should
of responding to inquiries about this point. If I were in charge
of the IRS I would certainly have a standard form answer that I
sent to everyone who asked to see the laws that require payment
of income taxes. Apparently, if the tax protestors are to be believed,
the IRS doesn't do this. But the answer is on the agency's website
for anyone to see.
Russo also shows some people making arguments that the income tax
is a bad and unnecessary way for the government to raise money.
These are policy arguments that have nothing to do with the legal
question of whether current statutes require the payment of income
taxes.
Finally, Russo shows interviews with people he refers to as the
"tax experts." I didn't recognize everyone he showed,
but he included Larken Rose and Irwin Schiff. Considering that they
have both been criminally convicted of tax evasion, I think it's
fair to say that they -- and by implication they other people that
Russo interviews -- are not "tax experts." If Russo wants
to interview some people who actually know something about the income
tax code, there are professors available at every law school who
would be happy to speak to him on camera -- heck, I'd be happy to
do it myself.
That's as much of the film as I watched. Judging from the part
I saw, the film appears to be a collection of the usual claptrap.
If there's some specific argument later in the film that you think
is compelling and is not covered on my web page, let me know. |
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| Sept. 15,
2006:
Good day Prof. Siegel. My name is ____ _____. I
am a 2L at St. Thomas University School of Law in Miami, Fl. and
I am taking the time to write you concerning your website (http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/IncomeTax.htm)
I would like to thank you for taking the time to explain this topic
to the general public, as well as to a very grateful law school
student. We have recently read Cheek v. United States in our Crim
Law I section and I had serious questions about the authenticity
about the requirments to pay income tax. As you point out, many
websites and films (most notably Aaron Russo's America: Freedom
to Fascism), make it appear as if our income tax system and the
I.R.S. in general are a fraud committed upon the American people.
As a law student, I felt it my obligation not to take the Prof's
word for it and do my own research into the topic. At first, I must
admit I bought into these arguments, since I was unable to locate
a court decision stating that American's must pay an unapportioned
tax on their labor (income tax.) Similarly, the arguments made by
the 'anti-tax' crowd play upon the language of some Supreme Court
decisions to make it appear as if the Court ruled that the 16th
Amendment granted no new powers upon the Congress to tax the people.
In a way, and please correct me if I am wrong, they are right. Those
ruling did not per se grant Congress a new power to tax, but rather
removed the requirement of apportionment, thereby allowing Congress
to institute the 'income tax'. I wonder Prof., why these ex-IRS
agents and the like have risked their careers and personal reputations
whilst making these actively false and misleading statements to
an otherwise unsuspecting population. In any event sir, please keep
up the outstanding job, and thank you again. P.S. please forgive
the informal nature of this communication. . . . my Legal Writing
Prof. would KILL ME if she saw this thing! |
| Reply:
Thanks for your message -- it's always good to
hear from people who have read the material on the website. I'm
glad it was helpful. And you're right about the 16th Amendment --
as you say, it just removed the requirement of apportionment.
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| Sept.
6, 2006:
Greetings,
I'm a Clemson University economics student who
recently stumbled into the Internet's vast resource of "income
tax hoax/fraud" web sites while conducting research for a public
sector class. Allow me to say first that I believe any proper form
of protest would involve first paying my taxes, and then pursuing
any questions of fact. I am dubious of all claims of any factual
nature on the Internet. Nonetheless, I am curious as to the truth
of two claims in particular, and I am hoping you can help clarify
them:
1. The first is that the 16th amendment was falsely
ratified. A gentlemen by the name of Bill Benson claims that he
has investigated the records of state congresses and can show that
the necessary 36 states (of 48 at the time) did not properly ratify
the amendment. I would complete dismiss such a claim if it were
not for the briefs on his site (http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com)
that he claims to have filed in an attempt to establish the facts
concerning ratification.
2. The second claim is that no agency, including
the IRS, can coerce individuals to file information collection papers
(such as the 1040) because the Paper Reduction Act requires all
government forms to be issued a valid control number by the OMB.
Apparently the IRS 1040 displays an invalid control number. (The
source of this claim was a press release from http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTP2/UPDATES/Update2006-06-09.htm)
I apologize if these requests for clarification
are redundant. I did my best to diligently look through your web
site for any information on these claims but was not able to find
anything.
Thanks very much in advance for your time,
_____ _____. |
| Reply:
Thanks for your message. I will answer the question
about the 16th Amendment on my webpage. It will take a week or so
to prepare the answer. I'll let you know when it's posted.
The other question, I think, is not worth adding to the website.
I haven't investigated the point thoroughly, but I believe the answer
is simply that Form 1040 does have an OMB control number.
You might check out Dan Evans' income tax website, which addresses
the question (although I can't vouch for his answers):
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
Reply 2:
The answer to your 16th Amendment question is now posted.
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Aug. 27, 2006:
Hi Mr. Siegel,
My name is ____ _____ and I am a high school English teacher. Perhaps
it would have been better if I was an social studies teacher. Please
forgive me writing you, but I am very confused about the income tax
myth--because people on both sides seem so adamant and sure of themselves.
If and when you have the time, can you comment on the few paragraphs
below:
...................................
The income tax is imposed on the "taxable income"
of individuals in Subchapter A, NOT all income. Only income derived from
taxable activities is what becomes "taxable income" (taxable
"gross income" minus allowable deductions). Therefore, federal
income taxes may be owed on such income. And if you owe federal income
taxes, you are required to pay them whether you like it or not. Required
means that it is mandatory.
But the list of taxable "activities" are located
in the Subchapter N, Section 861 regulations, thousands of pages away
from where the tax is imposed in Subchapter A. ALL individuals with domestic
income (the incomes of most Americans) must go to the Section 861 regulations
to determine if the activities that generate their income are taxable
or not.
Section 861 ("Income from sources within the United
States") contains the critical regulation 1.861-8, entitled "Computation
of taxable income from sources within the United States..." It is
in a subsection of this critical regulation (1.861-8(f)(1)) that ALL the
taxable activities are found.
But they are ALL related to international and possessions
commerce (including the domestic income of foreigners, since this is part
of "commerce with foreign nations" or international commerce).
The domestic incomes of residents of the United States (US citizens AND
resident aliens) are NOT shown to be taxable under the Section 861 regulations
(or anywhere else in the law), because Congress cannot tax them. [Foreigners
that live and work in the United States are called "resident aliens."]
Therefore, according to the written law, the domestic
activities of residents of the United States (Americans and resident aliens)
are NOT shown to be taxable, so the domestic income derived from such
activities does not become taxable "gross income."
....................................
_____ Comments: People are telling me that this means
that most working Americans don't have to pay federal income taxes. People
like you tell me this is a myth--and of course we have to pay taxes. Is
there any way you can respond to the above paragraphs or explain to me
how & why they are incorrect? I'd appreciate it whenever or if ever
you can find the time to get around to it.
Thanks in advance in any case, and be well & happy,
_____
Reply:
Thanks for your question. My best answer to it is found
on my website, see here:
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/861.htm
Briefly, the point is this: yes, section 861 of the tax
code determines what part of your income is considered to be U.S.-source
income. But if you are a U.S. citizen, then, by virtue of section 61 of
the tax code, you are taxed on all your income regardless of source. Therefore,
for most U.S. citizens, section 861 doesn't matter, because it doesn't
matter whether your income is U.S-source or foreign-source.
The regulation referred to in the paragraphs you quote
just specifies the portions of the tax code for which it *does* matter
what source your income is from. For example, if you claim the foreign
tax credit, then section 861 does matter for you. But most Americans don't
have occasion to claim the foreign tax credit.
I know it can be hard to make out the truth given all
the false information that's out there on the web. But ask yourself this:
if it were really true that most Americans don't owe the income tax, wouldn't
rich people hire lawyers to make that argument? They would save billions!
And even if there is a vast government conspiracy to hide the truth about
the tax code (which is absurd enough already), the conspiracy could never
reach the whole private bar. There are many lawyers who spend their whole
lives exposing government wrongdoing. If they could expose the government
and get rich by proving that people don't have to pay taxes, you can bet
they'd be doing it.
I hope that helps. |
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